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Article Source: National GeographicHigh in the mountains of northwestern Iran, a Christian archaeology expedition has discovered a rock formation that its members say resembles the fabled Noah's ark.
The team discovered the prominent boat-shaped rocks at just over 13,000 feet (4,000 meters) on Mount Suleiman in Iran's Elburz mountain range.
Boat shaped rocks? I thought Noah's Ark was built out of gopherwood.
#1 - Thu Jul 6, 2006 9:21 AM EDT"We have had [cut] thin sections of the rock made, and we can see [wood] cell structures," Cornuke said.
I suppose gopherwood can petrify into rock. I would expect if these mountains are relatively dry now, that would be very possible.
I'm not so sure wood can petrify into rock within two thousand years. There are trees older than that on Earth still standing (into multiple thousands of years of age), particularly the Bristlecone Pine.
That may very well be the case. However, I'm not sure why you would expect it to have petrified in less than that anyway. From the story:
Bible scholars think that Noah built his ark somewhere between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago, making preservation highly unlikely except in extreme environmental conditions.
Anyway, I should point out two things to everyone before they start getting the wrong idea: 1) I didn't seed this because I agree with the claims of this group (quite the opposite, actually) and 2) the rational debunking of the myth of the ark has been hashed out already on Newsvine. I had hoped that the 'lore' tag might have indicated this in part, but I suppose I should be much more obvious in the future.
Anyway, I should point out two things to everyone before they start getting the wrong idea
No, no, I didn't get that impression whatsoever. That's not the issue if you're referring to me. :) All I'm saying is that pertrification would entail many, many thousands of years, thus instantaneously debunking any sign that this would be Noah's Ark in any "literal timeline" sense.
Let's focus for a moment on the fact this was an expidition by the Bible Archaeology Search and Exploration Institute. These are people who went on a mission specifically for the purpose of finding Noah's Arc. Really they needed to come back with something, anything that would legitimize their mission:
The Bible Archaeology, Search & Exploration (B.A.S.E.) Institute is dedicated to the quest for archaeological evidence to help validate to the world that the Bible is true, and that it represents an accurate, non-fictional account of God's will to bring the people of this world back into relationship with Him.
It could very well be that they found nothing. It could very well be they found the petrified remains of a tree that once grew out of a stony outcropping of rock. It could very well be they found the petrified remains of a boat. It could very well be they found the petrified remains of Noah's Arc.
When it boils down to it, what the team found is irrelevant in light of the team itself. As Bible Literalists they went into the field knowning they would find archelogical "proof" that Noah's Arc was real. And -- by gum -- they found it!
-J
#2 - Thu Jul 6, 2006 10:55 AM EDTI think the most fascinating thing is that if they find that this will be a boat from a non-Judeo/Christian flood myth. Now that's a headline: 'Bible Literalists Undermine They're Own Mission with Archaeological Find; Members in Disbelief.' God loves irony.
Let's focus for a moment on the fact this was an expidition by the Bible Archaeology Search and Exploration Institute. These are people who went on a mission specifically for the purpose of finding Noah's Arc.
As you all know, the greatest archaeological finds in the last century were found by accident. If you actually find what you are looking for, well, obviously you are a crack-pot.
I guess I also wonder if this was found by a group of atheist archaeologists not looking for the Ark, would you believe it?
Bodhi1: Believe which part? That someone had found some petrified wood in the mountains of Iran? I think that may be possible as it stands. That this is the remains of a boat found 13,000 feet above sea level? Why would anyone have a boat up there, since there's not enough water on planet earth (in any form) to actually need on at that elevation? Or that this is indeed proof of the story of Noah's Ark from Genesis? Oh, we're going to need a lot more than just some dried out, petrified wood planks to prove that.
There remains a huge question mark over this discovery and it's presence is irrelevant of who made the find.
I guess I also wonder if this was found by a group of atheist archaeologists not looking for the Ark, would you believe it?
It's all about having a vested interest. I would be more likely to believe it for the same reasons I am less likely to believe, say, this doctor's claims.
-J
As Bible Literalists they went into the field knowning they would find archelogical "proof" that Noah's Arc was real. And -- by gum -- they found it!
In all fairness to this group of "Arkeologists" (that's what we "Archaeologists" call those who search for both Noah's Ark and the Ark of the Covenant), this is not the first time they've gone looking. This exact same group has been searching for 20-some years with failure after failure, which they have readily admitted.
I doubt they've actually found Noah's Ark, but what they have discovered should clearly be investigated.
As you all know, the greatest archaeological finds in the last century were found by accident. If you actually find what you are looking for, well, obviously you are a crack-pot.
Not all. Howard Carter was specifically looking for Tutanhkamun's tomb, not the local 7-11.
"As you all know, the greatest archaeological finds in the last century were found by accident. If you actually find what you are looking for, well, obviously you are a crack-pot."
May be they were looking for WMDs and found this instead.
#3 - Thu Jul 6, 2006 12:28 PM EDTLet's try and keep the discussion on-topic and less inflammatory, please.
Religious folk have quite a talent of seeing god in everything, regardless if science has a better explanation... this outcropping is just rocks, no boat, no petrified wood, no nothing... who ever heard of anything getting petrified at 13000 feet?
#4 - Thu Jul 6, 2006 12:28 PM EDTNoah's Ark?
And soon, someone will recover the walking stick of Moses - you know, the one he used to divide the ocean ;-)
#5 - Thu Jul 6, 2006 12:33 PM EDTAnd soon, someone will recover the walking stick of Moses - you know, the one he used to divide the ocean ;-)
Old news. The Staff of Moses has been on display for years
-J
Are the petrified seeds of Adams apple also on diplay somewhere?
Honestly, petrified wood hardly constitutes anything special at all. This is funny to me for the fact that to jump to such an outrageous conclusions after finding a few pieces of wood is almost laughable.
#6 - Thu Jul 6, 2006 1:24 PM EDTHigh in the mountains of northwestern Iran, a Christian archaeology expedition has discovered a rock formation that its members say resembles the fabled Noah's ark.
Cornuke acknowledges that it may be hard to prove that this object was Noah's ark. But he says he is fairly convinced that the rock formation was an important place of pilgrimage in the past.
The BASE team has uncovered evidence of an ancient shrine near the outcrop, suggesting that this was an important place to people in the past, Cornuke says.
"We can't claim to have conclusively found the ark, but it does look like the object that the ancients talked about," Cornuke said.
What is even more laughable is that you probably didn't read the article. Yes, the were looking for the ark and yes they are claiming that some rocks they found are petrified wood. But they are not claiming that they definitely have found Noah's ark.
The chances that there actually was a Noah's Ark are highly unlikely. According to some shows I've watched on the subject (Discovery Channel, etc.), the dimensions given for the ark in the bible would have put it on scale with the Titanic, which in biblical times would have been absolutely impossible to build with the materials they had. There is no way at all that Noah built a boat that size out of wood that would be seaworthy, let alone riding out the worst storm of all time, it would have fallen apart under its own weight.
#7 - Thu Jul 6, 2006 3:57 PM EDTOne more reason to bomb Iran.. but weren't they looking for WMDs or such? News like this surface every few years.
Unfortunately a lot of things resemble other totally unrelated things. Why, last week I saw a cloud that looked like Donald Trumps hair piece!! Or week before - a cat with a Nike swoosh on it's er.. anyway you get my point.
#8 - Fri Jul 7, 2006 1:49 AM EDTJust how many 'Arks' have been discovered now? Every few years there's a new claim and plenty of fanfare, then things go very quiet. I don't recall anyone ever admitting they'd made a mistake. It is no more than wishful thinking to believe the Ark could possibly have existed in reality.
#9 - Fri Jul 7, 2006 4:39 AM EDTWell, look at it this way. The fabled flood took place in the "Garden of Eden," which is at the base of four rivers, The Tigris, Euphrates, Gihon (Karun), and Pison (Wadi Rimah and Wadi Batin). Which is acctually pretty damn close to where they found that arc. But even if that is the fabled arc, that doesn't prove much considering we already know that there was a flood, and that it only flooded the "Garden of Eden" which is at the base of those four rivers mentioned above. And if you know anything about geology you would also know that those four rivers border Iran, Iraq, Turkey, and Saudia Arabia. All very mountainous terrain. So an arc at that size and magnatude could have quite possicly ended up in any of those countries. So as logical as it is for the arc to be in Turkey, it is also very illogical, considering a flood would try and flow to the nearest and the largest body of water, The Persian Gulf off the coasts of Saudi Arabia, and Iran.
#10 - Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:03 AM EDTI too was a unbeliever and full of my self righteous beliefs, but then I questioned all religions. Jesus was the only body never discovered, Muhammed, Budda, etc. are all bones in the earth. It all makes too much sense, we are all carbon based bodies not aliens. For over 40 years I was a scientific believer until carbon dating on a KFC chicken bone showed it to be many millions of years old. I've tried it all and the only thing that works and is applicable is the truth written in the Bible, it changed my life for the better. No one knows what goes on after death, but, I sure would rather it a glorious etertinity than the alternative and to date there is nothing written that depicts anything better. Not even a trillion virgins. Bottom line if your right and I'm wrong then I believed in something in vain that gave me peace, joy and a sense of purpose that has blessed me all my days here on earth. If I'm right and your wrong, then I'll live eternally in heaven with our creator, God, and you'll die eternally in the torment of hell. Now is it the Ark.... Or not. Think about it and may God prick your heart to believe.
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